On this special episode, hosts Sarah Saturday and Tarri Driver interview three men who have decided not to have children to find out more about the male / non-female perspective on this complicated topic. They are joined by Chris Driver, Daniel Jones, and Jeremy Lister.

Chris Driver, a professional writer/editor since 2010, has written about science at Oak Ridge National Laboratory since 2023. Before his writing career finally began, he did several restaurant tours of duty, drove a truck to deliver and repossess portable storage barns, sold computers and sporting goods, dabbled in landscaping, parked cars at fancy parties in Nashville, toured most of the USA in a punk rock band, and worked construction and cleaned fishing boats in Alaska. Virtually no one has read the book he wrote about all of that. He enjoys a variety of rock and jazz music, loves to read widely and is a bit of a film geek but isn’t much of a podcast guy. Happily married since 2006 to his best friend, the artist Tarri Driver, he has reluctantly agreed to invest further in that happiness by talking on her public podcast about his personal feelings.

Daniel Jones is a Nashville-based creative producer, dramaturg, writer, and director passionate about facilitating shared live arts experiences that ignite social change. In 2022, the Nashville Scene named him “Best Advocate for Artists.” He serves as the Associate Director of Programming & Partnerships at OZ Arts Nashville where he has supported hundreds of visiting artists from around the world, including companies from Brazil, Japan, Chile, Germany, South Africa, France, and more. He also works closely with Nashville artists as they develop new works in OZ’s unique 10,000 square-foot creative warehouse, including the annual Brave New Works Lab. Additionally, as the Co-Founder & Producing Artistic Director of the nonprofit organization Kindling Arts, Daniel has worked with hundreds of Nashville-based artists to launch more than 120 unique artistic experiences since the organization was founded in 2018. Kindling’s programming has been hailed by the Nashville Scene as “freewheeling, uncensored and full of heart, pushing the boundaries of what we imagine performance art to be.” Daniel’s creative producing credits include The Naughty Tree, an interdisciplinary, queer retelling of the Garden of Eden creation story; two installments of Heroic Couplets: Poetry into Film Collaborations with Defy Film Festival; and HAUNTED, a multimedia, immersive experience inspired by the deadliest train crash in American history. He is joyfully living child-free, which allows him lots of time to create art and invest in his local community. He plans to remain childless until he is in the grave.

Jeremy Lister is a songwriter with Big Yellow Dog, a background vocalist for Post Malone, and a founding member of Street Corner Symphony from NBC’s The Sing-Off. Beyond music, he co-owns Blister Hot Sauce with his brothers and is an avid runner, having completed two 100-mile ultramarathons. Most importantly, he is happily married to the most beautiful and brilliant person on the planet: Sarah Saturday.

Recorded on Mar 20, 2025

Additional Links:
Chris Driver: hardbarned.com/
Daniel Jones: kindlingarts.com/
Jeremy Lister:
@jeremyblister
blisterhotsauce.com
jeremylister.com

Find more about the Letters project at letterstoourunbornchildren.com

This episode introduces the next of 12 letters from their collaborative visual arts project “Letters to Our Unborn Children: An Exploration of a Woman’s Decision to Remain Child-Free by Choice.” Hosts Sarah Saturday and Tarri Driver discuss the “Steward” archetype behind the Letter, and share their research and insights around the themes in the letter. They also interview Nicole Louie, author of “Others Like Me: The Lives of Women Without Children.” Part memoir, part exploration of childlessness through candid conversations, “Others Like Me” is the story of fourteen women around the world, from different walks of life, who don’t have children. It’s also Nicole Louie’s story and the story of why she had to find others like her. As the social expectation to procreate weighs the most on women, Louie focuses solely on them, their experiences, and how they flourish outside of motherhood. In doing so, she upends the stereotypes that diminish women who are not mothers and offers reassurance and companionship on a path less known.

Recorded on: March 28th, 2025

Additional Links:
Nicole Louie on Instagram: @bynicolelouie
More from Nicole Louie: linktr.ee/nicolelouie

Find more about the Letters project at letterstoourunbornchildren.com

On this special episode, hosts Sarah Saturday and Tarri Driver interview four women who are moms, diving into the complex topic of what it’s like to be a mom. They are joined by Cara Dorris, Megan Johnson, Reneé Eades, and Melinda Dabbs.

Cara Dorris is an integrative dream therapist and spiritual counselor who helps clients connect with the sacred within and with all. Enriched by over a decade of exploration in energy and pastoral healing, dream integration, end-of-life care, grief support, 12-step recovery, and Nonviolent Communication, the core of her spiritual direction is identifying the divine needs most alive in her clients. These needs are often hidden in shadowed behaviors and offered as metaphors in dreams. She believes through learning the language of our needs and dreams, both universal and personal, people can deepen their relationship to self—the core from which all relationships grow. Cara’s first memory is a dream, one full of treasure and perspective she continues to unearth. In addition to impromptu intuitive stretching and channeling spiritual guidance through poetry, one of her favorite therapeutic exercises is dancing—at a rock show, in the kitchen with her children, and in her dreams.

Megan Johnson is a trainer, coach and instructional designer, currently working for the State of TN. She lives in Nashville with her husband, 9-year old son, and dog. She’s originally from Chicago and has loved living in music city for 15+ years. She enjoys writing and singing/playing pop/rock/IDM music, boating, being outdoors, and personal/spiritual development.

Reneé Eades is originally from Corinth, a small town in Mississippi, and has lived her entire life in the South. She left my hometown when she was 18 to attend college in Florence, Alabama, at the University of North Alabama, where she studied English and Professional Writing. She’s enjoyed literature and reading since she was a young child, so this was a natural fit for her. After finishing at UNA, she started her master’s program in English at MTSU, where she gained a teaching assistantship and worked in their Writing Center, so she moved to Murfreesboro and met some of the most amazing women who became close friends and confidants, including Tarri Driver! During grad school, she had the opportunity not only to tutor students, but also to teach – something she had sworn she would never do, as her mother was a teacher who worked harder than anyone she knew. Nonetheless, here she is, working hard at a career that she loves. She has taught English for a community college north of Nashville full-time for 20 years, and this is where she met her husband, who teaches History at the same school. They have been married for 15 years, and they have the funniest and brightest son that ever existed, in their humble opinion. Their son has just started middle school, and to the surprise of his mom and dad, he loves math as his favorite subject and hopes to be an engineer one day. He’s involved in a variety of activities, including band, Robotics, Scouts, and chess club, so he keeps his parents on their toes. Renee’s own personal interests include cooking with her friends in their Cooking Club, enjoying a good rock show or comedy show, and spending time with their cats, Poly and Shadow.

Melinda Dabbs is a friend and ally; artist and scientist; and lover of bunnies, mini donkeys, and good coffee – especially when enjoyed with dear friends. She lives in East Tennessee with the man of her dreams, their two precious boys, and their two squishy rescue buns. If you were able to examine her lifeblood under a microscope, you’d discover a rainbow of colorful inspiration fueling her soul. Her creative heart is especially energized by the world of surface pattern design, but her affinity for repeat patterns might be subconsciously influenced by the fact she has twins. Yes, her hands and her heart are beyond full!

Recorded on Feb 18, 2025

Additional Links:
Cara:
theestuary.org/cara-dorris
theestuary.org/dream-therapy
@thepeacebetween

Megan:
scalemodelmusic.com
@coach.rox

Melinda:
melindadabbs.com

Find more about the Letters project at letterstoourunbornchildren.com